Although I run away from personal conflict with friends I have to put my big boy pants on and start to explain to my median voter (ex)friends some of what this lot are doing wrong - if enough people do this we may have a reason to be jolly sooner rather than later
Those two snippets are depressing. New Zealanders have a tendency to believe the worst in others solely on opinion, no facts required. This is a comment on their moral fortitude / ethics and leaves them susceptible to coercion by paid off media. Can't rely on 2ZB or the platform for facts.
On another matter this morning the COC are again exhibiting the worst type of hypocrisy when allowing holocaust denier Candice Owens into NZ but not allowing Craig Rennie to attend the Half Yearly Fiscal and Economic Update??
Enemy of the people can come in but people who may disagree with some aspects of government policy in a coherent and well-informed manner are barred from seeing information in time to contribute to the news cycle. Legitimate free speech is not acceptable then??
Must admit I am a bit emotionally scrambled, but surviving with good people found on sites like this one, and lots of beautiful aroha from the hikoi and the continuing programe of information that everyone is sharing. ACT will not take over this beautiful country of AOTEAROA
The silly season also hides two very important submissions. The Treaty Principles bill ( 7th )an) and the RS bill - regulatory standards bill. (13th Jan) This may sound run of the mill - it’s anything but. It will rewrite NZ legal system ( think Act and Atlas) and bind all future govts to its will. Entrenching libertarian ideals. Very very scarey.
👍💯 The RSB bill has snuck largely under the radar - for those needing/wanting an explanation of it's dangers, Melanie Nelson has written a Substack "Disinterpreted" - if we have flexed our mental muscles to write a submission re the Treaty Principles Bill, give Aotearoa a Christmas present & do one for the Regulatory Standards Bill as well ⁉️🫂
👍👏💯Tautoko! I am raising this valuable Substack where ever I can, as I found it both alarming & helpful. Melanie also just did an interview on BHN podcast/YouTube & somewhere else (slipped my mind but going to look for it) so her korero is gaining notice - she is also starting a podcast called "Coherent with Melanie Nelson" which will be addressing these types of issues - her & Jane Kelsey are formidable & have mana, so keep spreading the word 👌
For a few months, I've been thinking that the noise is covering the legislative efforts of this government.
Melanie Nelson is doing amazing work - and I understand what you say.
For example, the repeal of 7AA was also a cloak to remove references to Te Tiriti.
I haven't delved into Melanie's RSB piece but -- the question is -- what can be done?
I think - from what I'm seeing so far - they are adopting the Trump playbook - not in terms of who he is -- but in terms of pushing ahead irrespective of opposition.
I'll take a deeper look soon though, and hear you in terms of its severity and repurcussions.
Hairy xmas, tho our halloed leader in name only couldn't say that could he. Now Winnie has always been able to say hairy xmas, doubt he would do hairy kirihimete, and Seyless, he will still be check'n his teeth in the mirror now he has a date, (The date to step down from DP and stick'n his beek into everything Atlas), and who knows when he may get another chance to be in front of a camera today and play king pin (head)! Love your mahi MT
T'is ironic but I wonder if all those who inherited mum and dad's 1950-1990 State House now rent it out for tax free Capital Gain and quietly voted for Luxon and Key landlord policy
I have an EV, I love its no emissions deal. The Labour party are very committed to carbon reduction, so we will see the moral balance on this restored in due course; we just have to wait.
Meanwhile I hope any RW EV owners are cross, and will then vote with us.
Thank you for the encouragement to have hope and shine. We need it more than ever. Thank you for all the good work you have done throughout the year alerting us to the minutiae in the chaos that has been served up to us. Even three years is three too many. Let our shining be seen!
Kia Ora Mountain Tui, recently I have seen people writing about the 'Regulatory Standards Bill' that looks set to pass into law quietly, while we are busy with other appalling bills like the 'Treaty Principles Bill. Bryan Bruce is talking about it but I dont have a sub to his substack so cant see the details but it's described as "the Bill which could change everthing" and which "stands to re-write most of our legal system and regulatory systems to align with libertarian principles" Submissions close soon and it seems to be sliding under the radar. Just wondering if you are aware of it? Ngā mihi, KSJ
I do wonder if this is a precusor for the need to "follow the money" (in this case funding) and "follow the cost" (in this case expense) as New Zealand's deomgraphy changes?
The large cohort of aging population will increasingly be not working. Its been broadly enought recognised that will increase costs to government accounts with increased healthcare and increased proportion of gdp being paid out in super.
We also need to recognise the impact on income for the government and its bodies. It is also broadly recognised that having a greater number of people not earning income from labour (eg wages) reduces income tax.
What is less broadly recognised is that our universal accident insurance scheme ACC is also reliant on labour-related income.
The sources of funding for ACC include:
#1 Work Account: Funded by levies charged to employers as a percentage of payroll and to self-employed individuals as a percentage of taxable earnings.
#2 Earners’ Account: Funded by levies charged to employees as a percentage of salary (collected through PAYE) and to self-employed individuals as a percentage of taxable earnings.
#3 Motor Vehicle Account: Funded through a vehicle licensing charge and a levy on petrol.
So with an aging population who are not being via payroll and also no driving as much, and increasingly switching to ev, these income sources are also under stress. And that same demographic switch also means a greater proportion of our population who are at risk from accidential injury- slips and falls as an example.
So an aging population means: more cost blaanced against lower levied revenue.
Its another example that our government revenues (based on labour income and business turnover) are increasingly insufficient against the expected demands from our population (the services - including accidental cover - that we expect to receive).
The sooner all political parties own up to their collective deceit over past decades in pretending it was all going to be fine the better.
We need reform, and we need it be a conscious choice about what we want as a nation. Not rhetoric. Not ideological posturing. Instead clear and simple choices.
For me this means taxing all forms of income - in particular capital gains - so we can look to retain the collective welfare and societal benefits we wish to enjoy as a community.
It is true that the treaty principles bill is hiding NZ First’s bill. In a way, so did the hikoi.
This is unfortunate. What I would note is that the majority did vote for this momentum. I think if there is to be resistance to this momentum then it needs to be in a tone that can be heard by the people swayed by the momentum. Which includes me.
For myself, I really want to be challenged on the mistaken ideas of TPB etc. I think the drama is a mistake, both ways. I think what we need is a good faith conversation.
The intended bill/bills that adjust legislation to remove or de-knacker references to the principles of the Treaty.
As for ACT, I value the traditional liberal democratic principles, and they are, overall, the closest to these. I’m not as libertarian as they are, although I tend more to the individualistic side than I do to the communitarian.
That said, I really care about our community. I think things that undermine our collective ‘us’ are a bad idea. I want good education for our kids. I want health care available to people in need who cannot afford it. (It’s at the margin, but when I get a script I will not try to not pay for it at the chemist, because I am well off and don’t need the support.) I want marginal groups to belong and live in dignity. I want an economic system that can provide well-paying, value-creating jobs (I’m not affronted by inequality, I have my own business and I don’t try to dodge tax) for all as far as possible.
I’m sure most people want this stuff. The challenge is how we can work out how to approach this together. ACT is a bit austere, but I think their policies more likely to ginger up what I see as flabby, coasting National and Labour. The Greens are all over the shop. TPM are a single issue party, and I wouldn’t approach the Treaty their way anyway.
Thank you for asking. I have anxiety that declaring myself like this will turn you away, and I don’t want to do that.
TPB will not pass but it is creating huge drama that creates a smoke screen. Meanwhile, as a result, the NZ First bill is not getting scrutiny and is highly likely to pass. So in a practical sense, this is the one that should be being challenged, but isn’t.
I am conservative, I voted for ACT. But sneaking legislation through is not the way to do it. I think the above is happenstance, but it still sets a bad tone.
I read articles from the left and the right. What I see is people who care, and who are not finding ways of talking to each other. The ‘good faith’ comment is that there are people on both sides who seem to primarily want to have a go at each other. The aggressive comments are disappointing.
I think politics is at heart about persuading fellow citizens as to the value of what you are saying. You do that best by meeting people where they are, and genuinely trying to stand in their shoes.
MT you know that our politics are not aligned. Neither are mine with Sapphi’s. But both of you are cogent and sincere. You are worth listening to and engaging with. (Also Natalia on Less Certain.)
NZ First’s ‘Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi Deletion Bill’ had its first reading on 14 November and is now before the Justice Committee. Thank you ChatGPT.
Although I run away from personal conflict with friends I have to put my big boy pants on and start to explain to my median voter (ex)friends some of what this lot are doing wrong - if enough people do this we may have a reason to be jolly sooner rather than later
Well done Keith!!
Those two snippets are depressing. New Zealanders have a tendency to believe the worst in others solely on opinion, no facts required. This is a comment on their moral fortitude / ethics and leaves them susceptible to coercion by paid off media. Can't rely on 2ZB or the platform for facts.
On another matter this morning the COC are again exhibiting the worst type of hypocrisy when allowing holocaust denier Candice Owens into NZ but not allowing Craig Rennie to attend the Half Yearly Fiscal and Economic Update??
Enemy of the people can come in but people who may disagree with some aspects of government policy in a coherent and well-informed manner are barred from seeing information in time to contribute to the news cycle. Legitimate free speech is not acceptable then??
Yes I wrote about Candice on notes - the government were lobbied by Jordan Williams Free Speech Union
Chris Penk the devoted Christian Minister override the Immigration department
There’s a reason why there are hate speech laws but we have been captured by some of the most morally egregious elements at present.
As Australia noted, Australia benefits from Owens being elsewhere - but definitely not Australia
Rob, re Craig & HYFEU, spiteful Nicola is at it again ..
Must admit I am a bit emotionally scrambled, but surviving with good people found on sites like this one, and lots of beautiful aroha from the hikoi and the continuing programe of information that everyone is sharing. ACT will not take over this beautiful country of AOTEAROA
The silly season also hides two very important submissions. The Treaty Principles bill ( 7th )an) and the RS bill - regulatory standards bill. (13th Jan) This may sound run of the mill - it’s anything but. It will rewrite NZ legal system ( think Act and Atlas) and bind all future govts to its will. Entrenching libertarian ideals. Very very scarey.
It is, Maree.
And designed to land in the post holiday daze - intentionally timed.
And that’s part of my point - there is nothing we can yet do to stop these anti democratic and dangerous acts.
So we must - in my view - act as we can but also maintain our trust and positivity and rest too.
Cheers,
Tui
Totally agree with youMT, and also with Rob P.!!
👍💯 The RSB bill has snuck largely under the radar - for those needing/wanting an explanation of it's dangers, Melanie Nelson has written a Substack "Disinterpreted" - if we have flexed our mental muscles to write a submission re the Treaty Principles Bill, give Aotearoa a Christmas present & do one for the Regulatory Standards Bill as well ⁉️🫂
Aloha from Big Island Hawaii- Keep up the good work 🌺
Hi mountain tui
Have you come across the latest attempt to pass the RSB Regulatory Standard's Bill
Melanie Nelson (substack) has done some work with Jane Kelsey on it
This is neo liberal extremism,that will force judges to make political decisions
The Treaty Principles Bill is being used as a cloak over this bill
Cheers
👍👏💯Tautoko! I am raising this valuable Substack where ever I can, as I found it both alarming & helpful. Melanie also just did an interview on BHN podcast/YouTube & somewhere else (slipped my mind but going to look for it) so her korero is gaining notice - she is also starting a podcast called "Coherent with Melanie Nelson" which will be addressing these types of issues - her & Jane Kelsey are formidable & have mana, so keep spreading the word 👌
Good morning Gordon,
For a few months, I've been thinking that the noise is covering the legislative efforts of this government.
Melanie Nelson is doing amazing work - and I understand what you say.
For example, the repeal of 7AA was also a cloak to remove references to Te Tiriti.
I haven't delved into Melanie's RSB piece but -- the question is -- what can be done?
I think - from what I'm seeing so far - they are adopting the Trump playbook - not in terms of who he is -- but in terms of pushing ahead irrespective of opposition.
I'll take a deeper look soon though, and hear you in terms of its severity and repurcussions.
Hairy xmas, tho our halloed leader in name only couldn't say that could he. Now Winnie has always been able to say hairy xmas, doubt he would do hairy kirihimete, and Seyless, he will still be check'n his teeth in the mirror now he has a date, (The date to step down from DP and stick'n his beek into everything Atlas), and who knows when he may get another chance to be in front of a camera today and play king pin (head)! Love your mahi MT
T'is ironic but I wonder if all those who inherited mum and dad's 1950-1990 State House now rent it out for tax free Capital Gain and quietly voted for Luxon and Key landlord policy
Do hope not!!
I have an EV, I love its no emissions deal. The Labour party are very committed to carbon reduction, so we will see the moral balance on this restored in due course; we just have to wait.
Meanwhile I hope any RW EV owners are cross, and will then vote with us.
No emissions - what’s not to love?
Cycling even more so and with exercise yet Simeon hates it too.
So too walking - no more such woke activity support
It’s like an anti-cheer party and Scrooge like eh?
😁 Fortunately the Christchurch City Council is proceeding with cycle-ways & walk-ways, & Simeon can do nothing about walking on the beach 🤷
Thank you for the encouragement to have hope and shine. We need it more than ever. Thank you for all the good work you have done throughout the year alerting us to the minutiae in the chaos that has been served up to us. Even three years is three too many. Let our shining be seen!
🙏 ☀️
Happy Christmas Tui
Thank you B Insull 🌞
PS. "Prof. Jane Kelsey describes it as a "legal strait-Jacket for government".
Kia Ora Mountain Tui, recently I have seen people writing about the 'Regulatory Standards Bill' that looks set to pass into law quietly, while we are busy with other appalling bills like the 'Treaty Principles Bill. Bryan Bruce is talking about it but I dont have a sub to his substack so cant see the details but it's described as "the Bill which could change everthing" and which "stands to re-write most of our legal system and regulatory systems to align with libertarian principles" Submissions close soon and it seems to be sliding under the radar. Just wondering if you are aware of it? Ngā mihi, KSJ
Melanie Nelson (Substack) writes about it and frankly I’d be surprised if they didn’t do as they are - I will provide more details on it soon.
Kia Ora KSJ:
Here are the article links and I'll delve a little more soon -
https://substack.com/home/post/p-152944988?source=queue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-wjH9uX2Bo
Cheers,
Tui
I do wonder if this is a precusor for the need to "follow the money" (in this case funding) and "follow the cost" (in this case expense) as New Zealand's deomgraphy changes?
The large cohort of aging population will increasingly be not working. Its been broadly enought recognised that will increase costs to government accounts with increased healthcare and increased proportion of gdp being paid out in super.
We also need to recognise the impact on income for the government and its bodies. It is also broadly recognised that having a greater number of people not earning income from labour (eg wages) reduces income tax.
What is less broadly recognised is that our universal accident insurance scheme ACC is also reliant on labour-related income.
The sources of funding for ACC include:
#1 Work Account: Funded by levies charged to employers as a percentage of payroll and to self-employed individuals as a percentage of taxable earnings.
#2 Earners’ Account: Funded by levies charged to employees as a percentage of salary (collected through PAYE) and to self-employed individuals as a percentage of taxable earnings.
#3 Motor Vehicle Account: Funded through a vehicle licensing charge and a levy on petrol.
So with an aging population who are not being via payroll and also no driving as much, and increasingly switching to ev, these income sources are also under stress. And that same demographic switch also means a greater proportion of our population who are at risk from accidential injury- slips and falls as an example.
So an aging population means: more cost blaanced against lower levied revenue.
Its another example that our government revenues (based on labour income and business turnover) are increasingly insufficient against the expected demands from our population (the services - including accidental cover - that we expect to receive).
The sooner all political parties own up to their collective deceit over past decades in pretending it was all going to be fine the better.
We need reform, and we need it be a conscious choice about what we want as a nation. Not rhetoric. Not ideological posturing. Instead clear and simple choices.
For me this means taxing all forms of income - in particular capital gains - so we can look to retain the collective welfare and societal benefits we wish to enjoy as a community.
The furniture retailer telling you to use facts not opinions 😆
It is true that the treaty principles bill is hiding NZ First’s bill. In a way, so did the hikoi.
This is unfortunate. What I would note is that the majority did vote for this momentum. I think if there is to be resistance to this momentum then it needs to be in a tone that can be heard by the people swayed by the momentum. Which includes me.
For myself, I really want to be challenged on the mistaken ideas of TPB etc. I think the drama is a mistake, both ways. I think what we need is a good faith conversation.
Thanks for your comments John.
What do you mean that the TPB is hiding NZ First's bill?
And you believe that "both ways" are not engaging in good faith?
The intended bill/bills that adjust legislation to remove or de-knacker references to the principles of the Treaty.
As for ACT, I value the traditional liberal democratic principles, and they are, overall, the closest to these. I’m not as libertarian as they are, although I tend more to the individualistic side than I do to the communitarian.
That said, I really care about our community. I think things that undermine our collective ‘us’ are a bad idea. I want good education for our kids. I want health care available to people in need who cannot afford it. (It’s at the margin, but when I get a script I will not try to not pay for it at the chemist, because I am well off and don’t need the support.) I want marginal groups to belong and live in dignity. I want an economic system that can provide well-paying, value-creating jobs (I’m not affronted by inequality, I have my own business and I don’t try to dodge tax) for all as far as possible.
I’m sure most people want this stuff. The challenge is how we can work out how to approach this together. ACT is a bit austere, but I think their policies more likely to ginger up what I see as flabby, coasting National and Labour. The Greens are all over the shop. TPM are a single issue party, and I wouldn’t approach the Treaty their way anyway.
Thank you for asking. I have anxiety that declaring myself like this will turn you away, and I don’t want to do that.
TPB will not pass but it is creating huge drama that creates a smoke screen. Meanwhile, as a result, the NZ First bill is not getting scrutiny and is highly likely to pass. So in a practical sense, this is the one that should be being challenged, but isn’t.
I am conservative, I voted for ACT. But sneaking legislation through is not the way to do it. I think the above is happenstance, but it still sets a bad tone.
I read articles from the left and the right. What I see is people who care, and who are not finding ways of talking to each other. The ‘good faith’ comment is that there are people on both sides who seem to primarily want to have a go at each other. The aggressive comments are disappointing.
I think politics is at heart about persuading fellow citizens as to the value of what you are saying. You do that best by meeting people where they are, and genuinely trying to stand in their shoes.
MT you know that our politics are not aligned. Neither are mine with Sapphi’s. But both of you are cogent and sincere. You are worth listening to and engaging with. (Also Natalia on Less Certain.)
John, why do you vote for ACT?
It's a serious question - in terms of your values and theirs, what aligns in your mind?
Second, can you please name the NZ First bill you say is being snuck through so I can look into that?
Thanks.
NZ First’s ‘Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi Deletion Bill’ had its first reading on 14 November and is now before the Justice Committee. Thank you ChatGPT.