Fricken targets or outcomes, or neither? - let’s keep the pressure on Luxon because he doesn’t like the hard questions, and there will be plenty to ask about the gang patch fiasco as it unfolds
As to Luxon, I kind of have to smile. I mean in my mind - and on my to do list - was a video reel of him getting angry when presented with evidence of his e.g. deception, non-research backed policies etc.
He does it a lot. He attacks when caught out. I thought I should stitch it together so people could see.
And then there he is - on the 6'o clock news - for all to see.
Is he trying to just make my workload less?
Agree he is folding a little, I almost felt sorry for him but not quite.
All sounds pretty exciting to me, I can imagine how this reinforces the is against the world mentality and strength in numbers that attract people to gang life? I would love to try the other way, make gang life boring. Paperwork, we need to hit them with more compliance! Send in Neil from Worksafe! Make sure they have their policies in place and their guns registered! 🫣
ha Dave! The latter's a policy I could stand behind and it made me chuckle.
I agree with the us v them reinforcement - and wouldn't it just excite them as to how to get around it and play with that e.g. do they provoke the police or do they just find a new symbol e.g. hand gesture or do they use it to distract police when something bigger is going down?
Yes they just co-opt other symbols to show membership. Might help some merchandise sales for a sports team. I know the black power logo and colours align with the bulldogs from NRL etc. Not sure I could see the killer bees in Savannah Bananas gear though…
If I was feeling super mischievous I would just co-opt political party logos, making them try and ban them would be delightful.
ha! I have heard another pal say something similar. And I always smile. And this is my point - the gangs can also play with police.
For example, how about tiny reflective insignia on the groin? Do we really expect police to be running after people with magnifying glasses checking on the latest trends? Bizarre!
Personally I'd rather police focus on causes of crime and catching crime. Also as the standard of police experience, and possibly standards falls as the govt tries to meet their 500 new police target, chances of escalation increases. The whole thing is daft anyway for little real benefit in my view.
Density Crutch is a hate group, a cult and nothing more. They are stochastic terrorists...and they're not subject to this legislation? Seems like something else is going on behind the scenes...
Good post Tui. While rising gang numbers are a concern the issues are complex and focusing on gang insignia is far from a worthwhile use of police resources. The police are already under intense pressure on all sorts of levels and this seems pretty low on the the priority list - and as you point out they being asked by the 'law and order party' to make financial cuts - which is frankly unbelievable!
On the money MT. There is no "data" backing this shit up. It's all a "conversation" Goldsmith had with his shadow.
We had a family member in the police and tbh no amount of data could justify what they're asking of an already overstretched Frontline service.
You could sense the BS from his nervousness responding to the swastika query. Ban patches but what about the swastika, what about Destiny patches? What about any other "offensive" insignia? He knows the policy's going to make a squat bit of difference!
In addition they've forgotten that gang members for better or worse are part of our communities. Has the govt already forgotten the abuse in state care report? Because if they read it they'd have a better chance of addressing the root cause of why gangs remain a constant and always will.
How about working with those who work with gangs? You know, influencing change in a way that will ensure a more sustainable outcome rather than the current BS? Love your mahi!
Yes 100% KueenM. And I remember the Abuse in Care inquiry and thought of it. I watched Luxon during that Abuse in CAre press conference when he responded to questions about the clear link between abuse in care and gangs.
Note: When asked about how to help the abused gang members, he pivoted quickly to corrections and how that would help these people "make the changes they need to make". Hm. Nothing about prevention. Lacks understanding you can't "make" anyone change until they are ready to inside. And pivots too quickly to imprisonment.
He called the abuse akin to a "dysfunctional upbringing".
I don't know - his empathy is almost non-existent. And the real ways are not as glamorous, I suspect.
Undoubtedly there are issues with crime and gang activity in pockets, but is it as they portray? And will their actions make it better or worse?
Are there more positive opportunities to intervene?
Is a multi-faceted strategy more appropriate and realistic?
etc.
Luxon will read the report in full, he claimed, but I hold little hope for substance over style.
Removing gang patches makes them less identifiable and will drive them underground. Then all of us brownies will be suspect. We've got enough grief already.
Waiting now for an entrepreneurial T shirt maker to start marketing biker-club knock-offs. If every kiwi wears them one like cabinet ministers wear designer orange workplace safety vests and helmets ...
The problem I have is with that are Nazi images and allusions -but they've been outlawed and out of fashion since 1945 when Rotary International was gearing up in Chicago
And then we reflect on the fact that Goldsmith explicitly said terrorist symbols are not in scope and would not say he would be comfortable sending police into private homes to search for them.
Fricken targets or outcomes, or neither? - let’s keep the pressure on Luxon because he doesn’t like the hard questions, and there will be plenty to ask about the gang patch fiasco as it unfolds
As to Luxon, I kind of have to smile. I mean in my mind - and on my to do list - was a video reel of him getting angry when presented with evidence of his e.g. deception, non-research backed policies etc.
He does it a lot. He attacks when caught out. I thought I should stitch it together so people could see.
And then there he is - on the 6'o clock news - for all to see.
Is he trying to just make my workload less?
Agree he is folding a little, I almost felt sorry for him but not quite.
If a group of National Party supporters all wear their blue tee shirts in public, are they a gang?
I plead the Fifth.
Is that the fifth, or the filth in this case
You mean blue suits with white shirt and blue tie, obvious gang attire
Blue banners with large white N, gang insignia
Congregating in Thorndon threating the general public
Chuck em all in jail
All sounds pretty exciting to me, I can imagine how this reinforces the is against the world mentality and strength in numbers that attract people to gang life? I would love to try the other way, make gang life boring. Paperwork, we need to hit them with more compliance! Send in Neil from Worksafe! Make sure they have their policies in place and their guns registered! 🫣
ha Dave! The latter's a policy I could stand behind and it made me chuckle.
I agree with the us v them reinforcement - and wouldn't it just excite them as to how to get around it and play with that e.g. do they provoke the police or do they just find a new symbol e.g. hand gesture or do they use it to distract police when something bigger is going down?
Yes they just co-opt other symbols to show membership. Might help some merchandise sales for a sports team. I know the black power logo and colours align with the bulldogs from NRL etc. Not sure I could see the killer bees in Savannah Bananas gear though…
If I was feeling super mischievous I would just co-opt political party logos, making them try and ban them would be delightful.
ha! I have heard another pal say something similar. And I always smile. And this is my point - the gangs can also play with police.
For example, how about tiny reflective insignia on the groin? Do we really expect police to be running after people with magnifying glasses checking on the latest trends? Bizarre!
Personally I'd rather police focus on causes of crime and catching crime. Also as the standard of police experience, and possibly standards falls as the govt tries to meet their 500 new police target, chances of escalation increases. The whole thing is daft anyway for little real benefit in my view.
https://shop.thesavannahbananas.com/products/bananas-yellow-short-sleeve-primary-logo-tee
Very appealing but it's a slippery slop
😂 You guys are saving my life.
🤣
Density Crutch is a hate group, a cult and nothing more. They are stochastic terrorists...and they're not subject to this legislation? Seems like something else is going on behind the scenes...
On my to do list too - Destiny Church.
thank you :-) yeah, here's a good report, destiny fits the definition of the first line to a tee...
https://www.un.org/securitycouncil/ctc/news/secretary-general%E2%80%99s-new-report-highlights-new-emerging-form-%E2%80%9Cfar-right%E2%80%9D-terrorism
also, it's u/nonbinaryatbirth here <3 much love for all your work!
I know who you are ! 🥰 And thanks - I'll take a look nbb. Cheers and good to see you here!
Good post Tui. While rising gang numbers are a concern the issues are complex and focusing on gang insignia is far from a worthwhile use of police resources. The police are already under intense pressure on all sorts of levels and this seems pretty low on the the priority list - and as you point out they being asked by the 'law and order party' to make financial cuts - which is frankly unbelievable!
Yes 100% and it's a real pity when this type of common sense goes begging at a critical juncture in our society, Mark.
On the money MT. There is no "data" backing this shit up. It's all a "conversation" Goldsmith had with his shadow.
We had a family member in the police and tbh no amount of data could justify what they're asking of an already overstretched Frontline service.
You could sense the BS from his nervousness responding to the swastika query. Ban patches but what about the swastika, what about Destiny patches? What about any other "offensive" insignia? He knows the policy's going to make a squat bit of difference!
In addition they've forgotten that gang members for better or worse are part of our communities. Has the govt already forgotten the abuse in state care report? Because if they read it they'd have a better chance of addressing the root cause of why gangs remain a constant and always will.
How about working with those who work with gangs? You know, influencing change in a way that will ensure a more sustainable outcome rather than the current BS? Love your mahi!
Yes 100% KueenM. And I remember the Abuse in Care inquiry and thought of it. I watched Luxon during that Abuse in CAre press conference when he responded to questions about the clear link between abuse in care and gangs.
Note: When asked about how to help the abused gang members, he pivoted quickly to corrections and how that would help these people "make the changes they need to make". Hm. Nothing about prevention. Lacks understanding you can't "make" anyone change until they are ready to inside. And pivots too quickly to imprisonment.
He called the abuse akin to a "dysfunctional upbringing".
I don't know - his empathy is almost non-existent. And the real ways are not as glamorous, I suspect.
Undoubtedly there are issues with crime and gang activity in pockets, but is it as they portray? And will their actions make it better or worse?
Are there more positive opportunities to intervene?
Is a multi-faceted strategy more appropriate and realistic?
etc.
Luxon will read the report in full, he claimed, but I hold little hope for substance over style.
Thanks for your comment and feedback!
Tui
Have a new image of Luxon!!’A barrow boy’…. He is nothing more!
Can't argue with that.
Removing gang patches makes them less identifiable and will drive them underground. Then all of us brownies will be suspect. We've got enough grief already.
Nailed it.
Waiting now for an entrepreneurial T shirt maker to start marketing biker-club knock-offs. If every kiwi wears them one like cabinet ministers wear designer orange workplace safety vests and helmets ...
The problem I have is with that are Nazi images and allusions -but they've been outlawed and out of fashion since 1945 when Rotary International was gearing up in Chicago
And then we reflect on the fact that Goldsmith explicitly said terrorist symbols are not in scope and would not say he would be comfortable sending police into private homes to search for them.
,"The best laid schemes o' mice an' men oft gang aft agley," Robert Burns
😀 I probably shouldn't have laughed so loud on this one but all I can say is thanks. We need more of this stuff during these times.